Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: t...@po.cwru.edu (Todd A. Farmerie)
Date: 2000/03/23
Subject: Re: Earl Godwin of Wessex
KHF...@aol.com wrote: This conclusion would only be justified if Godwine hadn't > I am not certain, but I would suspect that Godwin was not > truly Anglo-Saxon. The names of Godwin's sons are not > typically Anglo-Saxon: Harold (Harald), Wulf, Sweign (of > South Mercia), and Tostig. Another cousin named Beorne > was of Northampton. To me the onomastics suggest a > Danish origin for Godwin and the properties in his name > could likely have been granted as peace offerings. married a Danish wife, whose brother was a significant nobleman. The appearance of Danish names among their children is thus not surprising in the least, even were Godwine fully English. In fact, his children are about 50-50 mix of Danish and English names (the one son you name above was in fact Wulfnoth, a fully English name, nor is Wulf- a Danish element, Ulf being the scandinavian name equivalent). This has no bearing on the separate property issue. > The traditional descent according to secondary sources such as Weiss and This is not the traditional descent. Traditionally, he was > Stewart is below. I would not trust it, personally. of mean origins. This descent was only fully worked out within the past half-century, and should be broken down into two portions, one back to AEthelweard, and the other from AEthelweard to AEthelred. The argument for the descent is based on Godwin holding > 1 Godwin --Earl of Kent By the way, there were no Saxon Earls, only Ealdorman, and I > 2 Wulfnoth Cild --Saxon Earl of Kent don't think there is any evidence that Wulfnoth was an Ealdorman. He is called a Thane, and was from Sussex, not Kent, while Godwine's center of operations was Wessex, again not Kent. > 4 Aethelmaer Cild "the Great" The descent of a Godwine, usually thought to have been intended for the famous man of that name. He is shown as son of Wulfnoth, and grandson of AEthelmaer, who was brother of the rebel Eadric Streona. Support for the first of these is found in other sources calling Godwine the son of Wulfnoth, while the will of the AEtheling AEthelstan, son of AEthelred II, names AEthelmaer, Wulfnoth, and Godwine all in one run of legacies, suggesting a connection. Wulfnoth is identified with the Sussex rebel of that name who appears in the ASC, while the AEthelmaer in the pedigree is identified with the one inthe will, and in turn with the famous Ealdorman of that name. The problem is that the Ealdorman is known to have been son of Ealdorman AEthelweard, while the Florence pedigree makes him son of AEthelric (otherwise unknown). This has been smoothed over by suggesting that Florence either reversed the names of father and son (he gives AEthelmaer and Eadric a brother AEthelweard) or else compressed two generations into one (AEthelmaer AEthel-wearding son of AEthelweard Ead-ricing, becoming AEthelmaer AEthel-ricing). This is definitely the weakest point in the theory. > 8 Aethelwerd "the Historian" --Thane in Sussex AEthelweard, on the other hand, was an Ealdorman, as was his son AEthelmaer. While some have questioned the identity of the Ealdorman AEthelweard with AEthelweard the historian, the reasons for doubting this identity are easily dismissed, there identity being all but certain in my mind. This is significant, because AEthelweard the Historian, in the introduction to his history, specifically calls himself the grandchild's grandson of AEthelred I. Thus while the remaining descent is perhaps in doubt in detail, the end result - a descent from AEthelred I, cannot be doubted. > 16 Eadric --Lord Ogburn and Washington ®7, That Eadric and his brothers are sons of AEthelfrith is > 32 Aethelfrith --Ealdorman of Wiltshire ®9, > 64 Aethelhelm --Ealdorman of Wiltshire ®10, > 128 Ethelred I --King of England ®13, contradicted by a surviving transcript of a grant, which calls the father AEthelred. However, the surviving index to the cartulary has the father as AEthelfrith (AEthelridi vs. AEthelfridi), so this is likely correct. His placement as son of AEthelhelm is not unlikely, because we know of the number of generaitons involved, and with AEthelweard and also his 'uncle' AEthelred the Half-King being kinsman of royalty, it suggests that either AEthelfrith or his wife were the child of AEthelhelm or AEthelwold, and with AEthelwold's rebellion, AEthelhelm is more likely. There is also a charter which suggests AEthelfrith's wife was daughter of an AEthelwulf, so that leaves us with Kelley's reconstruction. Regarding other children named: > 64 Aethelhelm --Ealdorman of Wiltshire AEthelhelm is not known to have had a daughter of this name > Aethelhelm married Ethelgyth ®11, > They had the following children: independent of her further identification. AElfflead is the wife of King Eadweard the Elder, and was called daughter of Ealdorman AEthelhelm. IF, and only if, this is the same person as AEtheling AEthelhelm did the son of AEthelred I have a daughter of this name. Unfortunately, there were three contemporary AEthelhelms appearing in the royal charters. Still, the identity is not unlikely. > 128 Ethelred I --King of England That AEthelred I married Wulfthryth is another hypothesis, > Ethelred I married Wulfthryth ®14, > They had the following children: this one less well supported. Basically, there is a Queen Wulfthryth whose husband is never identified. The assignment to AEthelred I is (IIRC) based on the Wulf- element appearing among the individuals Kelley hypothesizes to descend from AEthelwold, son of AEthelred. The descent of Ealdorman Leofric and St. Dunstan from AEthelwold is less well supported, and basically just a guess. As to the children of AEthelred I and his queen, there are two attested - AEthelhelm and AEthelwold. This Elgiva (? Ealgifu or AElfgifu) is, as far as I am aware, without any support. That being said, I have one more comment: > 4 Aethelmaer Cild "the Great" married Ethelthryth ®4, F. > 8 Aethelwerd "the Historian" married Ethelflaed ®6, F. > 16 Eadric married Aethelgifu ®8, F. They were divorced. > 64 Aethelhelm married Ethelgyth ®11, F. They were > 128 Ethelred I married Wulfthryth ®14, F. They were that any of these are accurate. taf You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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