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Todd A. Farmerie  
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 More options Mar 23 2000, 1:30 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: t...@po.cwru.edu (Todd A. Farmerie)
Date: 2000/03/23
Subject: Re: Earl Godwin of Wessex

KHF...@aol.com wrote:
> I am not certain, but I would suspect that Godwin was not
> truly Anglo-Saxon. The names of Godwin's sons are not
> typically Anglo-Saxon: Harold (Harald), Wulf, Sweign (of
> South Mercia), and Tostig.  Another cousin named Beorne
> was of Northampton.  To me the onomastics suggest a
> Danish origin for Godwin and the properties in his name
> could likely have been granted as peace offerings.

This conclusion would only be justified if Godwine hadn't
married a Danish wife, whose brother was a significant
nobleman.  The appearance of Danish names among their
children is thus not surprising in the least, even were
Godwine fully English.  In fact, his children are about
50-50 mix of Danish and English names (the one son you name
above was in fact Wulfnoth, a fully English name, nor is
Wulf- a Danish element, Ulf being the scandinavian name
equivalent).

This has no bearing on the separate property issue.

> The traditional descent according to secondary sources such as Weiss and
> Stewart is below. I would not trust it, personally.

This is not the traditional descent.  Traditionally, he was
of mean origins.  This descent was only fully worked out
within the past half-century, and should be broken down into
two portions, one back to AEthelweard, and the other from
AEthelweard to AEthelred.

The argument for the descent is based on Godwin holding
lands which AElfred granted to his nephews AEthelwold and
AEthelhelm, to descend in the male line, as well as several
genealogical/historical citations.  I will leave the land
aside, but will briefly mention some of the other sources.

> 1 Godwin --Earl of Kent
> 2 Wulfnoth Cild --Saxon Earl of Kent

By the way, there were no Saxon Earls, only Ealdorman, and I
don't think there is any evidence that Wulfnoth was an
Ealdorman.  He is called a Thane, and was from Sussex, not
Kent, while Godwine's center of operations was Wessex, again
not Kent.

> 4 Aethelmaer Cild "the Great"

The descent of a Godwine, usually thought to have been
intended for the famous man of that name.  He is shown as
son of Wulfnoth, and grandson of AEthelmaer, who was brother
of the rebel Eadric Streona.  Support for the first of these
is found in other sources calling Godwine the son of
Wulfnoth, while the will of the AEtheling AEthelstan, son of
AEthelred II, names AEthelmaer, Wulfnoth, and Godwine all in
one run of legacies, suggesting a connection.  Wulfnoth is
identified with the Sussex rebel of that name who appears in
the ASC, while the AEthelmaer in the pedigree is identified
with the one inthe will, and in turn with the famous
Ealdorman of that name.  The problem is that the Ealdorman
is known to have been son of Ealdorman AEthelweard, while
the Florence pedigree makes him son of AEthelric (otherwise
unknown).  This has been smoothed over by suggesting that
Florence either reversed the names of father and son (he
gives AEthelmaer and Eadric a brother AEthelweard) or else
compressed two generations into one (AEthelmaer
AEthel-wearding son of AEthelweard Ead-ricing, becoming
AEthelmaer AEthel-ricing).  This is definitely the weakest
point in the theory.

> 8 Aethelwerd "the Historian" --Thane in Sussex

AEthelweard, on the other hand, was an Ealdorman, as was his
son AEthelmaer.  While some have questioned the identity of
the Ealdorman AEthelweard with AEthelweard the historian,
the reasons for doubting this identity are easily dismissed,
there identity being all but certain in my mind.  This is
significant, because AEthelweard the Historian, in the
introduction to his history, specifically calls himself the
grandchild's grandson of AEthelred I.  Thus while the
remaining descent is perhaps in doubt in detail, the end
result - a descent from AEthelred I, cannot be doubted.

> 16 Eadric --Lord Ogburn and Washington ®7,
> 32 Aethelfrith --Ealdorman of Wiltshire ®9,
> 64 Aethelhelm --Ealdorman of Wiltshire ®10,
> 128 Ethelred I --King of England ®13,

That Eadric and his brothers are sons of AEthelfrith is
contradicted by a surviving transcript of a grant, which
calls the father AEthelred.  However, the surviving index to
the cartulary has the father as AEthelfrith (AEthelridi vs.
AEthelfridi), so this is likely correct.  His placement as
son of AEthelhelm is not unlikely, because we know of the
number of generaitons involved, and with AEthelweard and
also his 'uncle' AEthelred the Half-King being kinsman of
royalty, it suggests that either AEthelfrith or his wife
were the child of AEthelhelm or AEthelwold, and with
AEthelwold's rebellion, AEthelhelm is more likely.  There is
also a charter which suggests AEthelfrith's wife was
daughter of an AEthelwulf, so that leaves us with Kelley's
reconstruction.

Regarding other children named:

> 64 Aethelhelm --Ealdorman of Wiltshire
> Aethelhelm married Ethelgyth ®11,

> They had the following children:
>     32  i.  Aethelfrith, M (-~0927)
>         ii. Elflaed ®12, F (~0878-~0919)

AEthelhelm is not known to have had a daughter of this name
independent of her further identification.  AElfflead is the
wife of King Eadweard the Elder, and was called daughter of
Ealdorman AEthelhelm.  IF, and only if, this is the same
person as AEtheling AEthelhelm did the son of AEthelred I
have a daughter of this name.  Unfortunately, there were
three contemporary AEthelhelms appearing in the royal
charters.  Still, the identity is not unlikely.

> 128 Ethelred I --King of England

> Ethelred I married Wulfthryth ®14,

> They had the following children:
>         i.  Elgiva, F
>     64  ii. Aethelhelm, M (~0859-~0898)

That AEthelred I married Wulfthryth is another hypothesis,
this one less well supported.  Basically, there is a Queen
Wulfthryth whose husband is never identified.  The
assignment to AEthelred I is (IIRC) based on the Wulf-
element appearing among the individuals Kelley hypothesizes
to descend from AEthelwold, son of AEthelred.  The descent
of Ealdorman Leofric and St. Dunstan from AEthelwold is less
well supported, and basically just a guess.  As to the
children of AEthelred I and his queen, there are two
attested - AEthelhelm and AEthelwold.  This Elgiva (?
Ealgifu or AElfgifu) is, as far as I am aware, without any
support.

That being said, I have one more comment:

> 4 Aethelmaer Cild "the Great" married Ethelthryth ®4, F.
> They were divorced.

> 8 Aethelwerd "the Historian" married Ethelflaed ®6, F.
> They were divorced.

> 16 Eadric married Aethelgifu ®8, F. They were divorced.

> 64 Aethelhelm married Ethelgyth ®11, F. They were
> divorced.

> 128 Ethelred I married Wulfthryth ®14, F. They were
> divorced.

Your Anglo Saxon divorce rate is WAY too high.  I don't know
that any of these are accurate.

taf


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